Here’s an uncomfortable truth: many lawyers admit they wouldn’t pay their own fees. So how can they expect their clients to?

A decade after her first LAWsome appearance, Vanessa Ugatti is back. She’s now an author, a mentor, and a go-to voice on getting paid what you’re worth. Co-hosts Tanner Jones and Matt Smyers sit down with her to unpack why talking about money makes so many talented attorneys squirm. Spoiler: it goes back to the caveman days.

Vanessa’s book, How to Get Paid Your True Worth Ethically Without Selling Your Soul, shares her own early struggles with pricing and the lessons that changed everything. Her biggest piece of advice is a mindset shift. Stop thinking of a sale as asking for money, and start seeing it as a fair exchange of value. Once you do, confidence in your pricing follows.

Sales might feel taboo, but no firm survives without them. Press play to hear how to charge what you’re worth, without the awkwardness.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

• How to set fees that reflect your true worth

• How to tell when it’s time to raise your fees

• The mindset shift lawyers need to sell their services with confidence